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jbarclay 258 Days ago

Old School vs. New School Hardwood Flooring

We are putting 3/4" sanded and finished in place red oak hardwood down in our house after a fire. The old hardwood has been removed and our subfloors are good, but not level; though they are smooth. That is there are no sudden dips or raises in the floor, just gradual ones. We are hiring flooring people and have good estimates from 2 companies with completely different approaches. We have 3/4" tongue and groove sub flooring.

1. Old School. Will take a little longer. Feels that 1/4"underlayment is a bad idea and wants to use hand nailer in order to get the wood closer together. Likes 2.5" T nails and wants to hit joists with them and feels underlayment will make connection weaker. Wants to lay them the wait a week for acclimation then sand and finish.

2. New School. Wants to use underlayment. Says avoiding hittitng the joists is ideal and says will aclimate the wood by delivering it to the job site well before they start. There will be no waiting period between floor installation and sanding and finishing. He will use pneumatic nailers/staple guns I assume.

I'm looking for documentation and rationale for 1) using or not using underlayment and 2) using and not using hand nailer and 3) why to hit the joists with the nails or avoid them.

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mgordon1977 236 Days ago Report Abuse

I have over 20 years experience doing floors and in my opinion the New School is the way to go. First off, you always want to let your hardwood flooring acclimate to the house before you lay it. The wood will adjust (shrink or swell) to the conditions in your house. If you put it down then nail it the would will still acclimate losening the nails. The way the old school guy is suggesting doesnt make any sense. The nails are driven at an angle. So even with a 2.5 inch nail you will only get 3/4" into the joist at most. And that is only if he hits the joist. Ok. So to get right to answering your questions. You said that the sub floor was in decent shape. The first thing I would do is if you are worried about the sub floor coming up. Just nail it down better. You can simply go to the store buy some nails, walk around and any clearly loose or spots you think might be an issue. Put nails in the closest joist. That being said. That should take any worries you have about the subfloor. Now to answer your questions.
1. I definitely recommend the underlayment. For one reason, if you go to almost any hardwood floor manufacturers website and look at how they tell you to install it. It will have underlayment. It lessons squeaks and absorbs moisture. Alot of people dont use it and they should.
http://www .armstrong.com/pdbupimages/936188122.pdf
That link is a link to a very well known trusted hardwood floor distrubutor's website and their installation directions. You will clearly see that they recommend using the underlayment.

2. As for the hand nailer. I find this really makes no difference except for the fact that it will take alot longer for them to do this by hand. It kills your knees and your back the longer you are down there. Not to mention, your wallet, because the longer they are down there the more you are paying. I recommend using the pneumatic. It is the same as the hand nailer and alot quicker. Have them lay the rows of hardwood in the opposite direction of the subfloor. Another reason it makes no sense to try to hit the joists. You could only hit the joist every 16 inches, or every 5th row of hardwood. This will level off your floors a bit and keep everything the way it should look. Have them nail atleast 1 every foot if you are overly concerned with the flooring staying down. I have done many a floor and if the subfloor is even half decent its not easy getting hardwood back up even with just 1 or 2 nails in it. Especially putting more nailing in, I couldnt even imagine doing this by hand. Pneumatic is the way to go.

3. As, I just explained. The hardwood floor should be going the opposite direction of the subfloor. The subfloor goes the opposite direction of the joists. Therefore, the joists and the new hardwood will be running the same direction. You would not be able to nail into the joists.

Few added tips: Liquid nails on starter and end rows will give some added hold. After installation and before they stain and poly buy some baby powder and dump it all over the floor then sweep it around and sweep it up. It will fill tiny cracks and stop squeaks and also helps with moisture. Lastly, make sure to do atleast two real good coats of poly. Best of luck.

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